I'm trying to work out how I can make my CSS as de-coupled from my HTML as possible. The way to do that would be to write the basic layout elements in the HTML in a standard way, so that different CSS files could know exactly what the mark-up it's working with will look like without having seen it.
So I was wondering if there exist anywhere a set of standards for how you should name your layout elements and what order to put them in. E.g. a sensible way to mark-up my page would be as follows (note that I'm using HTML5 elements and following the theory that you should never use IDs for CSS rules):
<body>
<div class="container"> <!-- central "squeeze" for the content -->
<header>
<img class="logo" />
<nav class="primary"></nav> <!-- main navigation -->
</header>
<aside class="pre"></aside> <!-- left column -->
<article class="main"></article> <!-- central main content -->
<aside class="post"></aside> <!-- right column -->
</div>
</body>
Many pages use something similar to this basic layout. But as you can see, the name of the "container" or "primary" class will vary a lot, as will the use of <aside> for columns. Also, there are probably variances in ordering, like some people would put the <nav> element after the <header> rather than inside it, or the column elements inside the <article> element.
Does anyone know of any work that's been done to standardise the ordering and naming of these commonly used layout elements? Like a microformat or something?
I don't think there is an absolute standard, since no two websites are the same.
Allright, some are, but that's not the point. :)
Anyway, since the CSS is made specifically to markup that single website, you can't actually decouple it in such detail. You won't find some ready made CSS sheets that you can just plugin your website to place all those navigation containers.
I think the best way is to come up with a standard for yourself and stick to it. I hope you would be able to find better names than the often used but quite abstract 'container'. And maybe, some day, it will become the defacto standard.
Related
this is my first question here on stackoverflow. Forgive me in advance if I am not formatting or asking this accordingly.
So, I've seen people building navbars in many ways, specially with flexbox, therefore, I know this topic was mentioned before many times, but, could someone clarify me if:
Does the brand/logo on my site have to be inside an <h1> tag of any other heading tags for SEO purposes?
Is it right to leave the brand/logo outside of the <nav> tag?
For example (code below), I would set the <div> with the class= container as the flex container, but then everything in the rest of the site with that same class would get the display: flex;too. Would you recommend creating a separate container class to contain the just navbar? I am applying display: flex; on the container and <ul> as well so all gets on the same line.
Thank you so much for taking the time and reading this and once again, my apologies if this is an old topic. I am trying to organize my code better and understand the best practices.
<body>
<header>
<div class="container">
<a href="" class="brand">
Brand
</a>
<nav>
<ul>
<li>services</li>
<li>about</li>
<li>location</li>
</ul>
</nav>
</div>
</header>
</body>
As far as the SEO, there's multiple ways you can get a better rating. H1 is probably the best, but you can use any of the header tags, and emphasis things like bold, italics, and such.
There's also meta tags that go in the area, such as
<meta name="keywords" content="your keywords here">
Using the keywords throughout your page too is a big help too. One of the ways people get big hits on their pages is by adding the name to the link. Like for articles you see online they'll be /name_of_the_article.html this helps a good deal in the search engines.
For the brand/logo, it is a good idea to leave it outside of the nav tag. You may want to put it in its own div or wrap them both up in a div tree so you can position it easier. But if you want the brand/logo to be with the nav bar then you can have it there also.
For the container part, without seeing the css, I would say if they are going to have the same styling, then by all means keep them together. But unless it's all really simple stuff, it's better to give them their own classes as styling for 1 thing, might not fit with another.
If you could make a jsfiddle or codepen it would be much easier to get a picture of what you want specifically regarding the class css.
I want to make htmlpage like this .
But i dont want to make 4 table for this 1 page.
What will be best way to make this (i will add some elements in cells after ) - Panel , Div , or something else ? Wait for good advice .
P.S. i write in Asp.Net / CSS .
You didn't state what contents should come on the page and how should they be placed. I'm just guessing what your page might look like and would suggest you to use the appropriate elements provided in HTML5. For the top area you could use:
<header role="banner><!-- your contents --></header>
assuming it contains title, logo or similar.
The central part could be wrapped by the element main:
<main role="main">
<section>Section1</section>
<section>Section2</section>
<section>Section1</section>
</main>
The part taking the menu i.e. navigation should be marked up with:
<nav role="navigation">
<!-- menu entries -->
</nav>
The bottom part could be marked up as:
<footer role="footer">
<!-- if you need two different containers inside -->
<div id="footer-left"></div>
<div id="footer-right"></div>
</footer>
This is just a rough example that should give you an idea how to proceed further.
Don't use tables for layouting the page as it is frowned upon. Position the elements using CSS3.
Good luck!
A while back if I built an html 4 page I would use div, span h1,h2,h3, strong, p and then style my css accordingly.
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Guide/HTML/HTML5 why are these tags here?
Now I want to use HTML 5 and I am very confused because after doing some research I see that there is allot of conflicting information.
So to start with these tags below and lets say my design is very image heavy
<section><nav><article><aside><header><footer><main>
in the old days I would write my html like this below
<div> <!-- large background image design -->
<div><!-- large background title left --><h1>hello world</h1> <!-- large background image --><div>
<div><!-- large background title right --><div>
<img src="" alt="" />
<h3>image description</h3><div><!--little image--></div>
</div>
Is it correct to write the code like this now ( swapping out the outer div for a section )
<section> <!-- large background image design -->
<header>
<div><!-- large background title left --><h1>hello world</h1> <!-- large background image --><div>
<div><!-- large background title right --><div>
</header>
<img src="" alt="" />
<footer>image description<footer><div><!--little image--></footer>
</section>
How do you know what tags should be used?
Does it matter if I only use divs as before?
Do the new tags really add any value?
Are you able to point me in the direction of easy to understand examples and explantations?
Why should I use these new tags do they really add any value?
List item
I see amazon.com is still HTML 4
w3schools who claim to be html5 don't have any <footer> or <nav> or <section> tags -> they have divs?
OR: Am I reading to much into this and just do what I think is correct and use the html5 elements that are available for what I am building? and validate it against the http://validator.w3.org/ The HTML5 part even though it says experimental
Thanks for the advice
Many of the new tags are to provide semantic and structural meaning to your document, even if you're not using them directly for styling. This improves machine-readability of your document. Semantic markup allows software to more effectively identify and classify portions of your document.
For example, you can use a list <ul><li>...</li></ul> or a bunch of DIVs to accomplish the same task, but a list has semantic meaning - a grouping of items, whereas a bunch of DIVs do not.
There's noting wrong with wrapping your menu in <nav>, even if it's all DIVs or UL/LI inside. NAV just identifies that section of the page as a navigation element, the same with HEADER, FOOTER etc. In fact, many of these tags come from a typographical background - the terms used in describing elements of pages in magazines and newspapers.
1.How do you know what tags should be used?
identify the header of your page or the header of a section and use - header tag
which part represents the footer of your page or the footer of a section ? - use footer tag to mark it up
instead of using <div id="main">, you can now use <main> tag to mark up main content
identify less relevant content from the relevant content, and figuratively speaking place it aside by using aside element
and so forth
4.Are you able to point me in the direction of easy to understand examples and explantations?
watch HTML5 free video demonstrations on w3-video.com
In HTML5, I know that <nav> can be used either inside or outside the page's masthead <header> element. For websites having both secondary and main navigation, it seems common to include the secondary navigation as a <nav> element inside the masthead <header> element with the main navigation as a <nav> element outside the masthead <header> element. However, if the website lacks secondary navigation, it appears common to include the main navigation in a <nav> element within the masthead <header> element.
If I follow these examples, my content structure will be based on the inclusion or exclusion of secondary navigation. This introduces a coupling between the content and the style that feels unnecessary and unnatural.
Is there a better way so that I'm not moving the main navigation from inside to outside the masthead <header> element based on the inclusion or exclusion of secondary navigation?
Main and Secondary Navigation Example
<header>
<nav>
<!-- Secondary Navigation inside <header> -->
<ul>
<li></li>
</ul>
</nav>
<h1>Website Title</h1>
</header>
<nav>
<!-- Main Navigation outside <header> -->
<ul>
<li></li>
</ul>
</nav>
OnlineDegrees.org is an example site that follows the above pattern.
Main Only Navigation Example
<header>
<h1>Website Title</h1>
<nav>
<!-- Main Navigation inside <header> -->
<ul>
<li></li>
</ul>
</nav>
</header>
Keyzo.co.uk is an example site that follows the above pattern.
Excerpts from Introducing HTML5 — Added on 02-Feb-11, 7:38 AM
Introducing HTML5 by Bruce Lawson and Remy Sharp has this to say about the subject:
The header can also contain navigation. This can be very useful for site-wide navigation, especially on template-driven sites where the whole of the <header> element could come from a template file.
Of course, it's not required that the <nav> be in the <header>.
If depends largely on whether you believe the site-wide navigation belongs in the site-wide header and also pragmatic considerations about ease of styling.
Based on that last sentence, it appears that Bruce Lawson—author of the chapter those excerpts are from—admits that "pragmatic considerations about ease of styling" yield a coupling between the content and the style.
It's completely up to you. You can either put them in the header or not, as long as the elements within them are internal navigation elements only (i.e. don't link to external sites such as a twitter or facebook account) then it's fine.
They tend to get placed in a header simply because that's where navigation often goes, but it's not set in stone.
You can read more about it at HTML5 Doctor.
I do not like putting the nav in the header. My reasoning is:
Logic
The header contains introductory information about the document. The nav is a menu that links to other documents. To my mind this means that the content of the nav belongs to the site rather than the document. An exception would be if the NAV held forward links.
Accessibility
I like to put menus at the end of the source code rather than the start. I use CSS to send it to the top of a computer screen or leave it at the end for text-speech browsers and small screens. This avoids the need for skip-links.
It's a little unclear whether you're asking for opinions, eg. "it's common to do xxx" or an actual rule, so I'm going to lean in the direction of rules.
The examples you cite seem based upon the examples in the spec for the nav element. Remember that the spec keeps getting tweaked and the rules are sometimes convoluted, so I'd venture many people might tend to just do what's given rather than interpret. You're showing two separate examples with different behavior, so there's only so much you can read into it. Do either of those sites also have the opposing sub/nav situation, and if so how do they handle it?
Most importantly, though, there's nothing in the spec saying either is the way to do it. One of the goals with HTML5 was to be very clear[this for comparison] about semantics, requirements, etc. so the omission is worth noting. As far as I can see, the examples are independent of each other and equally valid within their own context of layout requirements, etc.
Having the nav's source position be conditional is kind of silly(another red flag). Just pick a method and go with it.
#IanDevlin is correct. MDN's rules say the following:
"The HTML Header Element "" defines a page header — typically containing the logo and name of the site and possibly a horizontal menu..."
The word "possibly" there is key. It goes on to say that the header doesn't necessarily need to be a site header. For instance you could include a "header" on a pop-up modal or on other modular parts of the document where there is a header and it would be helpful for a user on a screen reader to know about it.
It terms of the implicit use of NAV you can use it anywhere there is grouped site navigation, although it's usually omitted from the "footer" section for mini-navs / important site links.
Really it comes down to personal / team choice. Decide what you and your team feel is more semantic and more important and the try to be consistent. For me, if the nav is inline with the logo and the main site's "h1" then it makes sense to put it in the "header" but if you have a different design choice then decide on a case by case basis.
Most importantly check out the docs and be sure if you choose to omit or include you understand why you are making that particular decision.
To expand on what #JoshuaMaddox said, in the MDN Learning Area, under the "Introduction to HTML" section, the Document and website structure sub-section says (bold/emphasis is by me):
Header
Usually a big strip across the top with a big heading and/or logo.
This is where the main common information about a website usually
stays from one webpage to another.
Navigation bar
Links to the site's main sections; usually represented by menu
buttons, links, or tabs. Like the header, this content usually remains
consistent from one webpage to another — having an inconsistent
navigation on your website will just lead to confused, frustrated
users. Many web designers consider the navigation bar to be part of
the header rather than a individual component, but that's not a
requirement; in fact some also argue that having the two separate is
better for accessibility, as screen readers can read the two features
better if they are separate.
I think the simpliest way to answer this is to check the MDN Web Docs and other web standards sites.
TL;DR
there is no right or wrong. It depends on what you build.
This is a question that every web developer asks himself at some point. I had asked myself the question several times. To answer this question, I looked at the source code of Stackoverflow. And SO has the nav tag inside the header tag.
Which is absolutely right here, because if you look at the structure of the view of the top bar, it quickly becomes clear that this is the right way to go. Here you can simply work with the flexbox design. Which in turn would only work with a superordinate tag if both tags were not nested. Which would unnecessarily bleach the DOM. like:
<div class="flex">
<header></header>
<nav></nav>
</div>
On the other hand, there are headers that are simply a large image with a logo inside. Or a whole line with the logo. Here it doesn't matter whether the nav tag is above or below the header tag.
Conclusion: The tags only have a semantic meaning and are not a specification for a template structure. You build the template according to your ideas or the expectations of the users.
Both cases are right!
<!-- case 1 -->
<body>
<header></header>
<nav></nav>
<main></main>
</body>
<!-- case 2 -->
<body>
<header>
<nav></nav>
</header>
<main></main>
</body>
In HTML5, I know that <nav> can be used either inside or outside the page's masthead <header> element. For websites having both secondary and main navigation, it seems common to include the secondary navigation as a <nav> element inside the masthead <header> element with the main navigation as a <nav> element outside the masthead <header> element. However, if the website lacks secondary navigation, it appears common to include the main navigation in a <nav> element within the masthead <header> element.
If I follow these examples, my content structure will be based on the inclusion or exclusion of secondary navigation. This introduces a coupling between the content and the style that feels unnecessary and unnatural.
Is there a better way so that I'm not moving the main navigation from inside to outside the masthead <header> element based on the inclusion or exclusion of secondary navigation?
Main and Secondary Navigation Example
<header>
<nav>
<!-- Secondary Navigation inside <header> -->
<ul>
<li></li>
</ul>
</nav>
<h1>Website Title</h1>
</header>
<nav>
<!-- Main Navigation outside <header> -->
<ul>
<li></li>
</ul>
</nav>
OnlineDegrees.org is an example site that follows the above pattern.
Main Only Navigation Example
<header>
<h1>Website Title</h1>
<nav>
<!-- Main Navigation inside <header> -->
<ul>
<li></li>
</ul>
</nav>
</header>
Keyzo.co.uk is an example site that follows the above pattern.
Excerpts from Introducing HTML5 — Added on 02-Feb-11, 7:38 AM
Introducing HTML5 by Bruce Lawson and Remy Sharp has this to say about the subject:
The header can also contain navigation. This can be very useful for site-wide navigation, especially on template-driven sites where the whole of the <header> element could come from a template file.
Of course, it's not required that the <nav> be in the <header>.
If depends largely on whether you believe the site-wide navigation belongs in the site-wide header and also pragmatic considerations about ease of styling.
Based on that last sentence, it appears that Bruce Lawson—author of the chapter those excerpts are from—admits that "pragmatic considerations about ease of styling" yield a coupling between the content and the style.
It's completely up to you. You can either put them in the header or not, as long as the elements within them are internal navigation elements only (i.e. don't link to external sites such as a twitter or facebook account) then it's fine.
They tend to get placed in a header simply because that's where navigation often goes, but it's not set in stone.
You can read more about it at HTML5 Doctor.
I do not like putting the nav in the header. My reasoning is:
Logic
The header contains introductory information about the document. The nav is a menu that links to other documents. To my mind this means that the content of the nav belongs to the site rather than the document. An exception would be if the NAV held forward links.
Accessibility
I like to put menus at the end of the source code rather than the start. I use CSS to send it to the top of a computer screen or leave it at the end for text-speech browsers and small screens. This avoids the need for skip-links.
It's a little unclear whether you're asking for opinions, eg. "it's common to do xxx" or an actual rule, so I'm going to lean in the direction of rules.
The examples you cite seem based upon the examples in the spec for the nav element. Remember that the spec keeps getting tweaked and the rules are sometimes convoluted, so I'd venture many people might tend to just do what's given rather than interpret. You're showing two separate examples with different behavior, so there's only so much you can read into it. Do either of those sites also have the opposing sub/nav situation, and if so how do they handle it?
Most importantly, though, there's nothing in the spec saying either is the way to do it. One of the goals with HTML5 was to be very clear[this for comparison] about semantics, requirements, etc. so the omission is worth noting. As far as I can see, the examples are independent of each other and equally valid within their own context of layout requirements, etc.
Having the nav's source position be conditional is kind of silly(another red flag). Just pick a method and go with it.
#IanDevlin is correct. MDN's rules say the following:
"The HTML Header Element "" defines a page header — typically containing the logo and name of the site and possibly a horizontal menu..."
The word "possibly" there is key. It goes on to say that the header doesn't necessarily need to be a site header. For instance you could include a "header" on a pop-up modal or on other modular parts of the document where there is a header and it would be helpful for a user on a screen reader to know about it.
It terms of the implicit use of NAV you can use it anywhere there is grouped site navigation, although it's usually omitted from the "footer" section for mini-navs / important site links.
Really it comes down to personal / team choice. Decide what you and your team feel is more semantic and more important and the try to be consistent. For me, if the nav is inline with the logo and the main site's "h1" then it makes sense to put it in the "header" but if you have a different design choice then decide on a case by case basis.
Most importantly check out the docs and be sure if you choose to omit or include you understand why you are making that particular decision.
To expand on what #JoshuaMaddox said, in the MDN Learning Area, under the "Introduction to HTML" section, the Document and website structure sub-section says (bold/emphasis is by me):
Header
Usually a big strip across the top with a big heading and/or logo.
This is where the main common information about a website usually
stays from one webpage to another.
Navigation bar
Links to the site's main sections; usually represented by menu
buttons, links, or tabs. Like the header, this content usually remains
consistent from one webpage to another — having an inconsistent
navigation on your website will just lead to confused, frustrated
users. Many web designers consider the navigation bar to be part of
the header rather than a individual component, but that's not a
requirement; in fact some also argue that having the two separate is
better for accessibility, as screen readers can read the two features
better if they are separate.
I think the simpliest way to answer this is to check the MDN Web Docs and other web standards sites.
TL;DR
there is no right or wrong. It depends on what you build.
This is a question that every web developer asks himself at some point. I had asked myself the question several times. To answer this question, I looked at the source code of Stackoverflow. And SO has the nav tag inside the header tag.
Which is absolutely right here, because if you look at the structure of the view of the top bar, it quickly becomes clear that this is the right way to go. Here you can simply work with the flexbox design. Which in turn would only work with a superordinate tag if both tags were not nested. Which would unnecessarily bleach the DOM. like:
<div class="flex">
<header></header>
<nav></nav>
</div>
On the other hand, there are headers that are simply a large image with a logo inside. Or a whole line with the logo. Here it doesn't matter whether the nav tag is above or below the header tag.
Conclusion: The tags only have a semantic meaning and are not a specification for a template structure. You build the template according to your ideas or the expectations of the users.
Both cases are right!
<!-- case 1 -->
<body>
<header></header>
<nav></nav>
<main></main>
</body>
<!-- case 2 -->
<body>
<header>
<nav></nav>
</header>
<main></main>
</body>