Closed. This question is opinion-based. It is not currently accepting answers.
Want to improve this question? Update the question so it can be answered with facts and citations by editing this post.
Closed 7 years ago.
Improve this question
A little backround:I'm a 22 yr old with just a high school degree and a lot of free time (college did not work out). I am completely new to web programming and I have taken a couple day classes in Photoshop, Illustrator, Dreamweaver, Fireworks, and InDesign. Seeing as these are only day classes, I am by no means a pro at any of them but I am getting more familiar with the Adobe programs. My teacher who was a freelance web designer told me that along with those Adobe programs, if I could learn HTML, XHTML, CSS, Flash, and Java that I would be in good shape regarding getting a job. She also told me if I could get good at both the design and programming sides, I could really get a good job.
I was just wondering if anyone has some advice or information for basically a noob who is starting from scratch and really wants to get into this profession. I've gotten on lynda.com to try and get going on the programming stuff and I'm just trying to turn some of these skills into a job. Best case scenario is that eventually I could be doing freelance and supporting myself...But that is obviously very far away. ANy advice would be greatly appreciated....
Advice You Don't Want To Hear
figure out what went wrong with college - at 22, you should have graduated by now, or close to it
fix it!
focus!
go back to college with a new focus and resolve - you now have a goal
If You Can Teach Yourself, You Can Graduate College
if the problem was boring general ed classes, look into CLEP tests to test out of them
if the problem was curriculum, take classes you are interested in first
if the problem was time, start part-time
if the problem was school choices, research different colleges - many online universities are now accredited
if the problem was self-discipline, then freelancing is not a good career choice
I'm not saying that you can't do what you asked about, but your chances of getting a good job are greatly increased with a degree, even a 2-year degree.
Obviously, this is not the only path, but it is arguably the easiest path. Marketing yourself when you have no degree and no experience is difficult, even if you are overflowing with talent and creativity. (It's easier now with the Internet, but by the same token the marketplace is that much more crowded.)
Good luck!
I'm currently a software engineering consultant. Familiarity with the following list of things helped me get an interview and an offer right out of college.
Note: HTML, XHTML, CSS... these are just markup languages, and chances are they'll barely be glanced at if you put them on a resume. Flash (not so much) and Java are more impressive, but you might want to look into the following additional topics/technologies to really spice up that resume:
Get comfortable with OO (Object-Oriented) principles (inheritance, polymorphism, abstract vs concrete classes, encapsulation, etc.)
Java is a great open-source beginner programming language. I'm primarily a .NET developer so I tend to favor that, but I started with Java in my college days and picked up on it very quickly
.NET 2.0, 3.5 -- C# and VB.NET (LINQ, lambda expressions, anonymous methods, etc.) -- You can start with the Express edition of Visual Studio, but may eventually want to get the full version
Move on to higher level programming concepts such as Design Patterns (MVC/MVP, Command, Facade, Adapter, the list goes on and on) -- I'd recommend the Gang of Four book (Google will tell you which book it is)
Database Management Systems
Learn SQL, be comfortable JOINing, using GROUP BY and HAVING clauses, and familiarize yourself with aggregate functions
Tackle DB design concepts (relational modeling especially)
Start with the free ones, like MySQL or PostgreSQL, then...
Focus on Microsoft SQL Server or Oracle (these are the big cats)
Go deeper with things like Normal Forms, data warehousing (OLAP, MOLAP, ROLAP, cubes, etc.)
Testing: look into unit testing and test-driven development
Software quality assurance - defect prevention techniques, etc. (this goes along with some of the points mentioned below)
Look into methodologies like Waterfall, Agile, and XP (eXtreme programming), perhaps even PSP and TSP
Learn to use Source/version control systems such as CVS, SVN, and VSS (Microsofts, unfortunately not free -- the first two are)
You could get really crazy and learn about static code analysis, but definitely look into code reviews and code inspections
EDIT: I thought I'd give you some books to check out (no particular order):
Introduction to Algorithms, 2nd ed.
Thomas H. Cormen, Charles E.
Leiserson, Ronald L. Rivest, and
Clifford Stein, 2002.
Artificial Intelligence: Structures
and Strategies for Complex Problem
Solving, 5th edition. George F.
Luger, 2005.
A First Book of Visual C++. Gary J.
Bronson, 2000.
An Introduction to Object-Oriented
Programming with Java, 3rd edition
(Java 1.5) update. C. Thomas Wu,
2004.
Mathematical Structures for Computer
Science, 5th edition. Judith L.
Gersting, 2003.
Mastering the Requirements Process,
2nd edition. Suzanne Robertson and
James Robertson, 2006.
Data Management: Databases and
Organizations, 5th edition. Richard
T. Watson, 2006.
Software Quality Engineering:
Testing, Quality Insurance, and
Quantifiable Improvement, 1st
edition. Jeff Tian, 2005.
Artificial Intelligence: A Modern
Approach, 2nd edition. Stuart
Russell and Peter Norvig, 2003.
Software Architecture in Practice,
2nd edition. Len Bass, Paul
Clements, and Rick Kazman, 2003.
Unit Testing in Java: How Tests
Drive the Code, 1st edition.
Johannes Link and Peter Frohlich,
2003.
Practical PostgreSQL, 1st edition.
John C. Worsley and Joshua D. Drake,
2002.
PSP: A Self-Improvement Process for
Software Engineers, 1st edition.
Watts S. Humphrey, 2005.
TSPi: Introduction to the Team
Software Process, 1st edition.
Watts S. Humphrey, 2000.
I guess that's all I have for now. If you can get these things down, your skill set should be pretty solid, and you'll be on your way towards being another member of the software engineering world. I'm not sure that anything you do on your own will give you the same level of knowledge as college courses, but I'm sure this is a good start. This is a hefty list; don't be surprised if obtaining these skills takes a couple of years.
As far as your graphic design skills, depending on the type of job you find yourself in, they may be more important than your programming skills. On top of either skill sets, make sure your soft skills are polished and that you are confident in your work.
Don't create websites by exporting to web from your design programs. If you see yourself creating slices and mouseover effects in Fireworks STOP and hit yourself in the head with something heavy and blunt.
Learn XHTML and CSS and learn them well. Try to be as semantic as possible.
Pick an all inclusive framework and build yourself a web app like a blog. As much as I love ASP.NET it is not all inclusive. It is massive. It will throw you in every direction. The same can be said of Java. Try something simple like Django or Rails.
Practice, practice, practice, and realize that all that you know is crap and that you need to get better.
Go back to 4 and do it till you die.
Ok, this may not be popular - but is drawn from my own experience at being a "self taught" programmer. The bottom line for getting a job at a company as a "programmer/web developer" is about "0%" without some type of degree/certification/on-the-job experience.
You may have noticed "the problem" with that statement - without a degree or certification, how do you get "on-the-job experience"? Welcome to "the real world".
My path to becoming a developer started with "the desire" ... and getting a job doing something else (Semiconductor manufacturing if you must know). I learned programming on my own as a "hobby" and continually looked for ways to apply it to my job tasks to improve my "job performance". I eventually applied for positions that would bring me closer to "programming" to make better use of my growing skills until I had enough "job experience examples" to apply for a programmer position.
That took "8 years". Regardless of what you think about college, getting "any" degree related to computer science at one would have cut that in half. You can do it on your own, but until you have some outstanding examples of how you used your programming skills to solve "real business" problems, you won't be considered over anyone with a degree "just out of school". When you finally do make it, you will notice that the "just out of school" folks who don't know jack about solving "business problems" will probably start with a better salary than yours.
The environment is probably better now than when I started (25 years ago - :-)) but the same general principle applies - the degree may not mean you know how to program, but it will get you past the "HR" screening process so you can get the job. :-)
Good luck ...
Create a project that would actually be useful and non-trivial for you: A forum or message board, or a job posting site, for instance.
But here's the important part: Give yourself a firm deadline. You can do quite a lot in, say, 4 weeks, and if you keep to a schedule like
database backend in week 1
login system in week 2
messaging in week 3
and so on, you can broadly cover many related subjects. Your project won't be pretty, but if you start out being a perfectionist, you'll never finish it, and will end up knowing only the first half of the technology in your project really well.
As you get more experience, you can go back and polish things up or rewrite stuff you did wrong, and then you have a portfolio that accurately reflects your current skills.
Learning HTML, XHTML, CSS, Flash, and Java plus several graphical programs is a pretty tall order. You'll overwhelm yourself trying to do that. Pick one and learn it then move onto the next. Grab a book or search the Stack Overflow archives for recommended online tutorials.
The best way to learn is to pick a project and just work on it. Then learn on demand as you find a need. The end product won't be the highest quality, but you'll learn how everything works together.
For serious web developer it is very crucial to understand how websites work inside out.
As you are starting from scratch I strongly recommend W3Schools.
With this website you can learn from Very Good Tutorials, then Try It Yourself and Test your skills.
Here are the steps for an absolute beginner:
html
css
JavaScript (Client Side Scripting)
PHP (Server Side Scripting)
SQL (DataBase applications)
DOM(Document Object Model)
AJAX
Drupal/Joomla/Plone (Content Management Systems)
NOTE: Type the code rather than cut-paste or using tools like Dreamweaver/FrontPage.Use the tools only after you are very comfortable with manual coding.(Believe me this helps a lot)
Enjoy!!!
The best I could suggest is that you create a fake need, for example create a simple file read / write app, or something that can toss information onto a database and retrieve it.
A more advanced project you could start on after would be a tagboard of sorts, with Create/Update/Read/Delete (CRUD) functionality, and add features to it in order to get practice with cookies, login, more database functionality, etc. You could also try using an image editor that just draws a clock showing the current server time the request was recieved as practice with images.
I would recommend learning html and css first. That is the cornerstone of anything you'll do on the web. For graphics, learn photoshop. Once you can make basic html websites, I would then choose to pursue either asp.net or flash. There are good jobs in both fields. I would say pick asp.net if you like programming, and flash if you like the visual aspects of web development more. As an asp.net developer I would say 90% of my day is doing database related work with MS SQL server. Really focus on databases. Finally, if you develop with asp.net, you should program in C# rather than vb.net. I started as a vb.net programmer and had to switch to C#, simply because most of the professional world uses it, hence it will be easier getting a job.
Look into local Code camps and user groups, create a project and build it, start by lerning HTML, CSS and javascript, then look at learning PHP is a great starter language for doing beginning web development the code side.
as far as getting a job without a degree, start a little lower on the food chain, I started in the QA lab, from there you can learn from the development side good practices and the do's and don't. Also as a QA person you learn in a hurry who are good developers and who are not simply by the work they produce.
W 3 Schools is a neat beginner/novice reference and tutorial site.
The site covers most technologies used in web-development.
Related
Closed. This question is opinion-based. It is not currently accepting answers.
Want to improve this question? Update the question so it can be answered with facts and citations by editing this post.
Closed 3 years ago.
Improve this question
I've been coding since my early teenager years. I started out with HTML, went on to PHP/MySQL (created my own forums, social networking sites, etc..) and then branched out into more traditional languages such as Java and C++ (also picked up a little VB .NET in high school). I'm most familiar now with C++ as that is the language of choice taught to us in Computer Science II (skipped Comp Sci I) at RPI. I now feel like I have a very good knowledge of how to program from this class (the homework assignments were brutal).
It is now summer and I am interning at a company that is providing me some level of new experiences with programming, but I want more. I want to feel the incredible satisfaction that I got out of my computer classes at RPI whenever I finished a long assignment (generating every possible wordsearch from a set of words to include and exclude comes to mind).
My question is, where do I go from here? I tried following a tutorials online, but they were all too simple. I then tried heading over to sourceforge and helping out with various projects. But, as soon as I downloaded the code I got lost in its complexity. I have never created actual software of a real life applicapable scale. And I don't know where to get started. How do you transition from programming knowledge to actuall creation of software?
I'm also open to learning new languages (javascript/jQuery, ASP .NET, C#, Python), or using new libraries and/or frameworks with c++ (we only used the STL in Comp Sci II) and other languages. Again my question is, where do I go from here? And I am welcome to all possible answers.
Thanks Much,
Michael
You could join a big open source project, you'll learn a lot and accomplish something cool.
EDIT after comment: If this is too complicated for you, try starting a "real" project. I say "real" because it should be something that you want to do, not a "create a blog" or "how to do a loop". For instance last year I created a fully functional project management system that I now use for some of my projects. If this is real, you will be more motivated and you will want to get this done.
Pick the technology you want for it. I'd recommend Ruby on Rails because it's awesome and full of interesting concepts that will improve the way you code overtime (DRY, RESTful, MVC...)... but you can pick whatever you want.
Try to create your project using what you know and basic tutorials. You will get stuck and have to learn some more in order to get the features you want going. To me that's the best way to improve the way you code and general programming knowledge.
Since you'll start the project from scratch, you'll see where to start and how this will evolve. I'll take the project management tool. We started with "A project has todos" and we ended up with all kind of other features such as a complex calendar, a full ajax interface, a embedded chat...
Once you see how you did this, try doing the same with a friend of yours to get a fealing of teamwork in development. Learn how to use SVN, basecamp... learn about software development processes (Agile!), peer programming..
There's a lot to experience! Then you could give open source another try.
Hope that helps
I'd recommend trying a pure functional language, such as Haskell. It's a completely different way of looking at programming, and I found it very satisfying.
I recommend the book Real World Haskell for learning it.
Edit: In response to comments, my interpretation of the question is where can he go from here as a programmer. Functional programming is a logical direction. For someone learning functional programming for the first time, Haskell is nice because it doesn't really allow for imperative programming practices. Furthermore, it has basically all features you will find in other functional languages, which means it will be easy to pick up other functional languages.
I would suggest looking at Project Euler. It's a great and fun way to learn a new language, and it does provide that level of satisfaction when you solve the problems. They offer a huge range of problems at all levels of difficulty.
I think the best way to improve your skills as a programmer is to do what programming was intended for: solve problems. I'm sure you've been playing around on your machine and at one time thought to yourself "I wish there was a program that did this..." or "I wonder if there are any programs that do X..." Instead of just googling to see if someone else wrote it, write it yourself. Start with something small, and gradually make it more complex. Add features. Allow yourself to fail, and when you do, ask yourself (or us at stackoverflow) how to overcome that obstacle. Once you have the basics of programming, everything else is just making big things out of littler things, and the little things are usually pretty easy.
When you are making something you know you will actually use, it's more fun and more gratifying when you finish.
Do you understand all of the following and how they work?
Linked lists (single and double)
Sequential vs. binary search
Binary trees
Stacks
Red-black trees
Algorithmic complexity and big O notation
Recursion
Hash tables and hashing algorithms
If you don't feel completely conversant in any of these, take a class in data structures and algorithms.
It seems like you've experienced many languages, but have not created a real-world application. Creating software in any of those languages will bring you to a new level.
PS: Creating software is much more than just knowing how to mess around with a language.
Check out Design Patterns.
I believe that's beyond mere simple coding.
You could offer your abilities to a non profit or a friend or someone who needs a website or program built.
Tell them you can do it for free and then just go for it. As you start to make it you'll start to see what you need to learn.
For example I bit ago I had the program Peel www.getpeel.com on my Mac. But sold my Mac for Wind as I am traveling.
Seeing that there was nothing for Windows (or nothing I could find) like Peel. I build my own in PHP and am up to a 4th rebuilding of it as I learn betters ways to do each new thing I am learning.
You've got to find a particular type of functionality that interests you. For me it's been basic socket programming and making my own protocols. I got that feeling when I was able to create a functional file uploading control that worked in conjunction with a file upload service on the server which I had created. The protocol handles authentication, chunking and hash comparison. Sometime soon I plan on incorporating file-resume functionality as well.
Well my advice will be to find a problem/project you are interested in and try to code it. Trying a real problem is something that drives you. Find something not to complex but not too simple. Something to try when starting a new language is to write some tools. You can for example program a python script that print metrics on a C++ project. You can write a tool that extract some statistics from a website you use, etc. When I learn programming game programming was quite fun (I was young :-) ). You can try to program some simple game using a 3D engine like Ogre3D for example. Participate in an opensource project is great too but as you stated perhaps a bit overwhelming for now ;-)
Find something you like and that has a REAL useful goal for you. You will thrive to solve the problem and learn a lot along the way !
I think the transition from the kind of finite tractable problems that are part of class projects (and some internships) to "real world" projects is quite tough. Sounds like language syntax, getting bugs out of code etc. is something you are comforatble with.
When we come to larger projects, probably with many release cycles, with developers working together, different kinds of problems emerge. I remember being shocked when I saw my first big project plan - what a small propertion of the time was actually writing code!
The thing I found helpful as a junior was "Sitting By Nelly", I was lucky enough to work for enlighted employers who put me with very experienced and helpful developers. Sometimes to work with, sometime to work alongside. I reckon that helped me get over the hurdles you describe.
So, I reckon you need to find employment of this kind. Be less concerned about specific technologies, salary etc. Look instead for the culture and level of responsibility you would have.
I think you should really start a "real world application" as suggested here. You will see that a real project requires a bit more than just knowing the language.
I suggest you find some simple problem you had issue with, and make a software that solves that issue.
For example, if you want some kind of software that checks RSS feeds every 5 minutes and makes a little pop-up as soon as a new one comes along. Or you want a program that will let you do simple presentations by just dragging a few pictures in.
Then whatever you choose, start by making the simple solution to the problem and extend from there (like do different settings, extra features etc.)
I've looked for the answer to this question for a while now. Most all of the suggestions are usually either help an open source project or build something that interests you. I'm starting to realize that those answers are vague because what's 'interesting' or 'valuable' experience and how to get started doing it is completely subjective. Also, there's only one way to get real experience, which is to work on real projects. It's difficult but find a project, personal, open source, or otherwise that will increase your knowledge in a technology or platform that you think will hold your interest. Then just dig in. It doesn't have to be of earth shattering importance, just valuable in relation to your own goals.
There is no magic bullet transition from academic puzzle solving programs to real world applications. The best way to learn is just to jump in head first. It will take you a very long time to learn what you need to if you only ever look at your own code. You need to be looking at code written by professionals and struggling to understand why it works the way it does until you do understand it.
It seems overwhelming at first, but you will quickly start to see patterns if the application is at all logical. Well written code will be separated in logical ways, so you should be able to pick it apart one layer at a time.
For example, you could try a bottom up approach where you try to understand how the database interactions are handled before looking at the code that uses the database layer. You keep going upward until you get to the GUI event handlers.
Large enterprise applications can be even harder to understand because there might be a lot more than one executable, or component. Try to stay focused and learn what the component is responsible for doing, and then pick it apart a piece at a time.
You will see that there are not just patterns at the function and class level, but at higher levels as well. This makes it simpler to understand what is going on when you understand those patterns.
Try to find an internship or co-op position. I was in a similar situation after my first few courses. I took a co-op position sophomore year and I learned so much more on the job than I did in class. Class is great for teaching you theory and the basics. I learned C# on my first project on my co-op and that got me my second co-op position at another employer (wanted to see how it was working at a small company).
This past spring, I accepted a position at my first co-op employer, reworking my first major project I had started on my co-op. I have a list of side projects I also want to complete, which will help round out my skills, as well as learn some other languages.
So my suggestion is try finding a job where you can have a great mentor. On my second co-op, I learned alot of the coding standards that I code against from my supervisor. He was a great teacher, and really had some great input, and explained why things should be done certain ways.
You will almost certainly go nowhere unless you find something that interests you. Figure out what is interesting, and then how to write software involving it.
The only way to begin is to begin! There is really no other way... The best answers you get would always tell you this. You have the knowledge, now put it to work!
I realize this comes at an enormous risk of being branded "subjective" and "discussion-based", but you don't have to argue with anyone, or me. I'd just like honest answers to the question. So first, the question:
In your experience, is it feasible to say I could find a job as a java or other "non-web" language/system developer without a CS degree?
A little background : I am a LAMP(PP) Developer, and have been working with the web world for the past two years or so, and am about 90% self-taught. [edit] I have been working part-time/freelance in html/css/javascript for about 7 years, and full-time salary doing php/perl for the past 2 years, for clarification. [/edit] A friend of mine who does a lot of Java has convinced me to start learning it, and I'm starting to be curious about my potential employability in a "non-web" environment. So far I've worked for marketing firms and doing application development for a web-based system, so having a Bachelor's degree in a non-related field (music) hasn't held me back yet.
Acceptable format for non-subjective answers :
"Our company does not require a specific degree, if you have a few years of employment history and can prove you know programming you can get a job"
-or-
"With the economy being the way it is, the only way to ensure you'll get past the first level of screening is to have an extensive relevant education"
Yes you can (otherwise I would not have a job). If you can show that you know the stuff, many companies will not bother too much about formal degrees. After all, they (should) hire people because they have certain skills, not because they acquired those skills in a specific manner. Studying at a university is one way, working with programming in practice is another.
Now, I think (guessing here, given my background) that you would learn things in the university that you will not typically pickup from being an autodidact, and that might still be useful when working as a programmer, but I would believe that the more time you have spent working on actual software that has been delivered to (hopefully happy) customers, the less the lack of formal degrees will matter.
In my experience, it pretty much depends on where you want to work, and in some cases, how far up the management ladder you want to go.
Some places I've worked don't really care if you have a degree or not. In fact, in one place I worked it was almost a detriment to have a degree, since much of management didn't have degrees.
Other places I've worked have required a "related" degree. In at least one case I was personally involved with, that was to their detriment, because a friend of mine was much better and more knowledgeable than any of the developers there, and looking for a new job, but they wouldn't even talk to her since she didn't have a degree.
Finally, for some employers, it's just whether you have a degree or not, and your major is not important. I know one guy doing Java development, and his degree is in history. Also, I work in a science facility, and lots of people here have degrees in a relevant science, and have little or no formal software development education.
It's a mindshift for sure, but I don't see any reason why you can't make the transition. A good programmer is a good programmer regardless of the language they're using. I've known guys that write excellent java code and easily make the transition to javascript or ruby. Where you might come unstuck is the fundamentals of computer science which is what you really get from the formal education. Things like pointers, memory management, threading etc are things that I tend to find "self taught" developers are usually not so strong in, but there's no reason you can't learn these things and if you're able to prove to prospective employers that you have a good grasp of the concepts and can prove you know how to use them then I don't think you'll have too much trouble.
In your case you should use your music degree as an advantage and look to land your first application programming job in a company doing music-related application development. Your music degree coupled with programming experience of any kind will certainly open some doors.
You may need to take an initial cut in pay to make the transition, though.
Speaking for my own experience and my country Switzerland: I started with an internal education in a big company and do not have a degree in CS up to now, some 23 years later. I had difficulties finding a job in the 2 years following the burst of the internet bubble, which I was able to breach being self-employed and with some unemployment money from the government.
Most big companies here do not care about degrees, unless you want to pursue a carrier. But then you need an MBA, not CS.
There is one exception, though, which are the consulting companies. They sell their services proportionally to the numbers of Doctors they have in the team, so no chance - unless you have connections.
Small companies here know that they have to invest for somebody to know the tools and languages they use - so if they are in need, they will hire you even with little experience in the exact field.
It might not harm to get some stuff done with the tools you would prefer to work with, but
good employers know that learning yet another language is not the hard part
work experience outweighs private experience
Go for it. Don't quit your dayjob and start looking around. After a few years experience will for sure outweigh education on the job market.
If you have the chance to visit some classes on the side, you can only benefit though. Personally.
My experience has always led me to evaluate past evidence. This means what is there to show what you have achieved. If you are entering a new technology, it will be a while before you will achieve this which means you may have to re-start at the bottom. Do you want to do that? If you are prepared to offer all your skills to a new job (including learning new languages), that would be better. In this way you become incrementally more valuable, irrespective of whether you have a degree or not.
I'm mostly self-taught, and in my career, I have transitioned from VB to C++/MFC to "classic" ASP to Java, and that doesn't even scratch the surface of all the ancillary technologies I had to learn to get my job done. I think all developers should expect to pick up new skills. It just comes with the job.
I think you're making an odd distinction between "Web" and "Application" development. Practically all of my Java work has involved building web sites, and the same is probably true for C#/.NET developers as well. As a LAMP guy, you already have a few key employable skills -- you know Linux, you understand (or should understand) the TCP/IP stack, how HTTP works, etc. And you know how to put together an attractive-looking interface, which is a rarer skill than you might think. You can leverage all these skills as you make the transition to Java/.NET/Whatever.
As for the music degree, don't sweat it. Some of the best programmers I've ever worked with have been musicians. I don't have a CS degree, and it hasn't slowed me down much. A certification might help get you in the door at some companies, but before that try a pet project or two in Java and see where it takes you.
Closed. This question is opinion-based. It is not currently accepting answers.
Want to improve this question? Update the question so it can be answered with facts and citations by editing this post.
Closed 9 years ago.
Improve this question
What are the key practical concepts that a fresh graduate should be educated with when he starts with his first programming job and how soon should you expect him/her to be productive and actually deliver the code you expect ?
source control and testing
Get them started with checking out code and writing unit tests first, learn what its about, and then go from there.
Yeah, that's a subjective question. We have done several summer and during-school internships as well as hired recent grads in CS.
If we start with a student who knows:
An OOP-ish language (Java, C#, VB.NET, C++)
How to fire up a compiler/debugger
How to work with our Source Code Control
Then given a defined problem domain with prerequisites (for example, for a recent intern, the problem domain was "adding autogenerated annotation metadata to TIFF files using self-describing barcodes"), the student needed to therefore know
How to generate and parse XMP
How to read/write metadata into TIFFs (we have tools for that)
How to read from a barcode scanner
Write unit tests
We saw progress in a week and saw demo code in a month. This was all within expectation. I mostly let him work on his own, but stepped in and course corrected some of his style and coding practice.
The important part of this is how goals were set and met. I made the important parts crystal clear (ie, requirements) and left the less important parts up to his design. After all, who wants to do paint by number all the time? For setting goals, I try in general to follow the SMART guidelines. A good goal is
Specific
Measurable
Avhievable
Realistic
Timely
It's very important that the project has a good feedback loop for communication. We were somewhat wanting in this regard.
Don't assume anything.
I made it through college without source control. Testing was stepping through the code with the debugger. No paperwork was needed for any assignment.
These 3 things are vital for production-grade code.
Just my thoughts and experiences:
Mentor. Assign a senior or lead programmer to mentor them. Not everyone is geared for this sort of assignment and a good mentor makes a difference. We have a mentor assigned to every new programmer - regardless of how long they have been coding - just to get the new employee familiar with our systems.
Start small. Depending on how your organization / team / etc is configured have the new grad start on some small maintenance projects, with a mentor reviewing their code and guiding them.
Get them training in the development environment your shop works in - expect that they will know a little about a few languages but that most of their development experience will be with school projects - not exactly solid production code. They will need a solid base to work from in the environment you use.
Code review and best practices - give them guidelines and make sure that they stick to them - if you are not using best practices internally, then start. Makes a huge difference when a large development group is involved. Review code frequently - this does not have to be a large group of developers in a meeting - one on one reviews, informal inspections, etc work wonders.
Develop an environment of cooperation - allow developers to mingle and talk and brainstorm - give them the opportunity to discuss ideas and thoughts that might not be related to the code at hand - they will rely on each other more then plants in the cube farm and production will higher quality. Allow them to read blogs and sites related to their craft - sights such as this one, coding horror, hacker news, etc. Support them going to local user groups and developer conferences.
Productive? That depends on the individual - some new graduates will never be productive coders but might be productive analysts or managers - some will be code machines out of the gate but will quickly churn out 1000 lines of maintenance nightmare code where 20 would suffice. I would say a fresh programmer out of school should be productive in 6 to 8 months - this is to say up to speed with you average programmers on staff, able to take a new project for your product, design and implement it, and able to handle any maintenance task required. It takes time to get the experience required to be productive - experience that can only come from actually developing in a production environment.
First: If you are a fresh graduate or a skilled developer - you always can gain new experience. So developers should be ready to always learn.
For the question: If your dev-team Practices Test-Driven-Development the first thing should be to show him how to write tests and how it can be useful.
Naturally the freshman should be able to use version-control, so if he relly has no skills at version-control a short introduction for this should be made.
Here are a few things I've found to be important for recent grads as well as new hires that have experience:
be proactive about including them in the corporate culture, don't assume they will fit in on their own
include them in meetings even if they are only there to listen
encourage them to interact in meetings when appropriate
be careful when dismissing their ideas as bad I've seen this discourage people from mentioning good ideas later down the road
Use of source control would be first on my list as very few schools need or rely on this. Really sit down and explain how to use the product you use and why it is necessary. Then for at least the first month, make sure to frequently check to make sure they are using it.
Next would be basic database skills. I've yet to see anyone come out of school really understanding how to query a database.
Third would be an introduction to your database and code base, explaining how things are done and organized and why.
Fourth, testing procedures and policies including how to do a code review, unit testing, QA etc. Tesing is not something that most students need to worry about either.
Fifth, assign a mentor if at all possible, someone the new person can go to for advice, to ask questions about company basics. You probably need someone to give them the basics of professional behavior as well. What is acceptable in terms of dress, attendance, etc.
Closed. This question is opinion-based. It is not currently accepting answers.
Want to improve this question? Update the question so it can be answered with facts and citations by editing this post.
Closed 9 years ago.
Improve this question
which were your achievements in programming in 2008?
what technologies surprise you or learn this year and what do you expect in programming terms in 2009
Edit:
Changed to Wiki
I wrote 2 VB.NET language features that will ship as part of VS 2010.
I designed a programing language called Liberty,
However, I've only implemented a small fraction of it. I stopped working on it so that I could concentrate on building a profitable software company. My original intent was to market the language (actually an IDE for it) as my first product, but the economics of programing languages being as they are, I decided to pick something else for my company's first product. I've been thinking about turning it into an open source project. If the statement "A programing language that feels like LISP, but looks like C#..." has any appeal to you, and you are interested in working on an open source .NET compiler, let me know.
I started my own software company
I've designed and implemented most of my company's first product "Transactor Code Agent", which should be shipping in Q1 2009. I've been billing it as a "Disaster Recovery Tool for Programmers".
It's a tool that provides automatic local version history for source code. You point it at the folders that contain your source, and then anytime you make a change to file it automatically creates a backup for you. It's meant to be a compliment to existing source control setups, by protecting all the "broken", "in-progress" work that you usually don't check into source control.
By the way, we are looking for beta-testers. If you are interested let me know.
After Scott's outing I would feel deep shame in confessing what I achieved in 2008.
I made one of my "flagship" applications better by removing features from it.
For the first time, I sold my work to a general audience, via the App Store. In so doing, I:
Reached over five times as many users as my most widely-used previous work (26000+ instead of 5000+)
Made more than three times as much money as my most lucrative previous work (a Google Summer of Code grant in 2005)
Learned two new environments (Objective-C/Cocoa Touch and Ruby/Rails) after sticking with Perl for many years
Disciplined myself enough to get the boring bits done
Learned what it meant to be responsible to thousands of people
But perhaps most importantly, I made beautiful things that I could be proud of.
In 2009 (or maybe late '08) I'll release a new product that I hope will push all of that even farther, and maybe even be a best-in-class solution for a problem everybody faces.
Helped push another release towards the door (not quite there yet)
Presented a paper on accelerating the Hough Transform at WorldComp
Averaged just shy of one blog post per week
Built up hope of catching John Skeet in reputation
Did a huge set of bizarro work with reflection and dynamic code generation
Gave up all hope of catching John Skeet in reputation
Managed three employees, more or less successfully
I decided I would learn a new language, nothing specific at the time, since then I have learned Python.
This coming year, I would like to learn another language, preferably something like c++ or maybe just maybe (I'm a *nix kinda' guy) Ill try a Microsoft stack with something like .net but we'll see what happens.
Improved interviewing skills. I am now better able to discern good and bad applicants through better questions, including small whiteboard coding sessions.
I am up to speed with Drupal, though lots still to learn. First time really working with a good framework.
2009, maybe i'll get around to doing some lisp funness
I opened myself to the world of Dynamic Languages and Functional Languages. I can read programs that dont resemble a C++ or C# kind of code with {} and ;. In the process developed better understanding to patterns like MVC.
I needed to learn PF early this December as our existing firewall solution was woefully underpowered for an industrial application, but we didn't have the dough for the "professional" solutions (i.e. ci$cso stuff).
So I ended up taking my existing OpenBSD box in the server stack and turn it into the firewall using PF. Since the system uses multiple servers and multiple IP's (some on domains), I needed a combination of NAT, RDR and the usual RULES.
It's certainly not as sexy as learning APL or LISP (or Ruby etc.) for fun, but it was necessary and urgent.
The new firewall is performing beautifully and I don't have to reset the horrid little firewall appliances twice a week anymore (which had to be done remotely which also was not fun). :-)
Cheers,
-Richard
Well, I've builded a big site (for some project) and learned java, now I want to learn C for coming year.
I released my first program into the wild world of the Internet.
I went outside my .NET bubble by creating the previously mentioned program in Objective-C.
I built a pretty cool string extractor utility and corresponding processing library to facilitate automatic localization of string resources in a native C++ application without refactoring the code to extract the strings from where they were used, with the added benefit of allowing cross-language string pooling of localized strings.
I also built a cool operator_cast<> function (with some help from the SO community) to help codify programming intent when using custom casting operators.
1- I made changes to a International Wine Contest Software that i previously wroted. it was changed because the a new sponsor have a different logic in the contest we were notified about the changes 3 days before, so a friend and I code like 2 days in a row,literally running from work to the contest in order to provide support. at the end everything was Flawless
2.- Released my first program for Sales and inventory for Video game retailer
3.- Start my Coding Blog
both in .Net of Course
As it currently stands, this question is not a good fit for our Q&A format. We expect answers to be supported by facts, references, or expertise, but this question will likely solicit debate, arguments, polling, or extended discussion. If you feel that this question can be improved and possibly reopened, visit the help center for guidance.
Closed 11 years ago.
Locked. This question and its answers are locked because the question is off-topic but has historical significance. It is not currently accepting new answers or interactions.
What languages and tools do you consider a youngster starting out in programming should use in the modern era?
Lots of us started with proprietary Basics and they didn't do all of us long term harm :) but given the experiences you have had since then and your knowledge of the domain now are there better options?
There are related queries to this one such as "Best ways to teach a beginner to program?" and "One piece of advice" about starting adults programming both of which I submitted answers to but children might require a different tool.
Disclosure: it's bloody hard choosing a 'correct' answer to a question like this so who ever has the best score in a few days will get the 'best answer' mark from me based on the communities choice.
I would suggest LEGO Mindstorm, it provides an intuitive drag and drop interface for programming and because it comes with hardware it provides something tangible for a child to grasp. Also, because it is "LEGO" they might think of it as more of a game then a programming exercise.
My day job is in a school, and over the past few years I've seen or taught (or attempted to teach) various children, in various numbers, programming lessons.
Children are all different - some are quick learners, some aren't. In particular, some have better literacy skills than others, and that definitely makes a difference to the speed at which they'll pick up programming. I bet that most of us here, as professional computer programmers and the kind of people who read and post to forums for fun, learnt to read at a pretty young age. For those kinds of children, and if it's your own child who you can teach one-on-one, you could do worse than JavaScript - it has the advantage that you can do real stuff with it right away, and the edit-test cycle is simply hitting "refresh" in the browser. It gets confusing when you start to run in to how JavaScript does everything asynchronously, and is tricky to debug, but for a bright child under close tuition these problems can be overcome.
LEGO Mindstorms is definitely up there at the top of the list. Most schools now super-glue the bricks together to create pre-made models that can't have bits nicked off of them, but this shouldn't be a problem at home. Over on the Times Educational Supplement site (website forum for the UK's weekly teaching newspaper), the "what programming language is best for children?" topic comes up pretty regularly. Lots of recommendations over there for Scratch as an alternative to Mindstorms - bit more freedom than Mindstorms, again probably better for the brighter student who could also be given a soldering iron.
I've found that slower pupils can still have problems with Mindstorms, even though the programming environment is "graphical" - there's still a lot going on on screen, and there's a fair bit to remember (this was an older version, mind - haven't tried the snazzy new one yet). In my experience, the best all-round introduction to programming is probably still LOGO - actually a considerably more powerful language than most people give it credit for. The original Mindstorms book by Seymour Papert (nothing to do with LEGO - they nicked the title of the book for their product), one of the originators of LOGO, is the canonical reference for teaching programming to children as a "thinking skill" and for the concept of Constructionism in learning.
We've had classes of 7 or 8 year-olds programming LOGO. Note that we aren't aiming to make them "software developers", that's a career path they can decide on at some point post-16. At a young age we're trying to get them to think of "computer programming" as just another tool - how to set out a problem to be solved by a computer, in the same way they might use a mind map to help them organise and remember stuff for an exam. No poor child should be sat down and drilled in the minutia and use of a particular language, they should be left to explore and figure stuff out as they like.
I'll second Geoff's suggestions of Phrogram (used to be KPL), and Alice.
My only other suggestion is Lego Mindstorms NXT. The NXT's programming language is drag-and-drop, is very easy to use, and can do some very complicated tasks once you learn it. Also young boys usually like seeing things move. :)
I've used Alice and NXTs with some young kids, and they've taken to it very well.
Two possibilities are:
Scratch - developed at MIT - http://scratch.mit.edu/
and
EToys from the One Laptop per Child fame - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Squeak
Full disclosure: I'm one of the guys who invented Kid's Programming Language, which is now http://www.Phrogram.com, which others have recommended here. Let me add some programmer-oriented info about it.
It's a code IDE, rather than drag-and-drop, or designer-based. This was intentional on our part - we wanted to make it easy and fun to do real text-based programming, particularly programming games and graphics. This is a fundamental difference between us and Alice and Scratch. Which you pick is a matter of the kid, their age and aptitudes, your goals. Using them serially with the same beginner might be a great way to go - if you do that, I would recommend Scratch, Alice, Phrogram as the order. Phrogram has worked best for 12 years and up, but I know dads with 6 year olds who have taught their kids with it, and I know 10 year olds who have taught themselves with it.
The language is as much like English as we could make it, and is as minimal as we could make it. The secret sauce is in the class-based object heirarchy, which is again as simple, intuitive and English-like as we could make it. The object heirarchy is optimized for games and graphics. 3D models are available, and 2D sprites. Absolute movement using screen coordinates is supported, or relative movement ala LOGO turtles - Forward(x), TurnLeft(y).
The IDE comes with over 100 examples, some language examples (loops), some learning examples (arrays), some fully-functional games and sims (Pong, Missile Command, Game of Life).
To give you a sense of how highly leveraged we made the language and the IDE: with 27 instructions you can fly a 3D spaceship model around a 3D skybox, using your keyboard. The same with a 2D sprite is 12 to 15 instructions.
We are working on a Blade-compatible release of Phrogram that will allow programs to run on the XBox 360. Yeah, the XBox, on your big TV. Nice motivator for getting a kid started? :)
Phrogram includes support for class-based programming, with methods and properties - but that's only encapsulation, not inheritance or polymorphism.
A tutorial and user guide is available,
My own ebook is available at Amazon and other places online, "Learn to Program with Phrogram!," and gets a beginner started by programming the classic Pong.
Phrogram Programming for the Absolute Beginner, by Jerry Lee Ford, Jr., is also available, as a paperback, at Amazon and elsewhere.
For a child, I would go with Alice. Any kid is going to like the drag-and-drop interaction that Alice uses better than trying to remember how to spell and punctuate any programming language. He/She will learn the basic programming structures (conditionals, loops, etc.) and will experience the fun of building an animated program they can show off to other family or friends.
A beginner CS class at the local community college actually uses Alice to teach programming in a language-independent way. It provides a good foundation for moving into programming in a particular language (or a few languages) down the road.
I recently saw a presentation about GreenFoot (a java based learning environment for children). It looked awesome. If I would have kids, I would give it a try
Link to the presentation
It is a very playful environment, where you could start with very basic methods. The kids learn thinking in an object oriented way (you cannot instantiate an animal, but you can instantiate a cat). And the better they get, the more of Java you can uncover for/with them.
I'd go with Scratch, some points regarding it.
It's a graphical programming language. It isn't text based (this might be
positive or negative). It does make it more intuitive and easy for kids (7 and
up).
It's actually highly object. The objects you write these graphical scripts have the code attached to them and can be reused and moved around.
Very Important: quick and impressive results. Kids need to get going fast and get results in order to get hooked.
I'd like to note that although many of us started programing at a young age in basic or logo and because programmer later in life doesn't mean those are good languages to start with. I think that kids today have much better options, like scratch or Alice.
Text based languages (python, ruby, basic, c# or even c) are dependent on external libraries and tools (editors, compilers) while something like Alice or scratch is all inclusive and will teach kids (not aimed at teens) programming concepts. Later they can move on and expand their learning.
Check out Phrogram (formerly KPL) and Alice
I'd say: give the kid a real C64, because that's how I got started. But, today... I'd say Ruby, but Ruby is a bit too chaotic. BASIC would be better in the long run. Processing is easy to learn, and it's basically Java.
The reason I recommend a C64 is because it's BASIC, but you still have to learn certain computer-related things, like the memory model, pixels, characters, character maps, newlines, etc. etc, if you want to do more advanced stuff. Also, if your kid finds it boring, you know his heart really isn't into coding.
I would pitch LOGO. It was something that was taught in my elementary school. It gives nearly immediate feedback, and will teach really basic programming concepts. Moving that little turtle around can be a lot of fun.
For a child, I would go with Alice.
Here is another vote for Alice. My 4 kids have had a ton of fun working with it and learning the basic concepts of programming. Of course to them it's all about socializing with fairies and ogres, but heck the darn legacy system I work on could use some faries and ogres too.
I'd recommend python, because it's so terse and expressive. Seems less likely to frustrate when getting started, but offers plenty of room to learn more advanced concepts as well.
Game Maker might be another approach. You can start simple with easy drag and drop development, and then introduce more advanced programming as you go. The book The Game Maker's Apprentice: Game Development for Beginners has a number of sample games and takes you through the steps required to make them.
I think python is a good alternative; it is a very powerful language also you can easily do a lot of things (not boring at all).
Checkout Squeak developed by Alan Kay who think programming should be taught at early ages.
How old? Lots of us stared with BASIC at some point, but before then, I learned the concepts of stringing commands together, variables, and looping with LOGO. Figuring out how to draw a circle with a triangle that can only go in a straight line and turn was my very first programming accomplishment.
Edit: This question & its answers make me feel old.
Though _why hasn't given it much love in the past year or so, for a while I was really excited about Hackety Hack. I think the key for most new programmers, especially children who are more than apt to losing interest in things, is instantaneous feedback. That was the really wonderful thing about Hackety Hack: a few lines of code, and suddenly you have something in front of you that does something. There are a few similar applications aimed at things like drawing graphics (one of which, I briefly assisted Nathan Weizenbaum on, Scribble!). Kids simply need positive feedback that they're doing something correct on a regular basis, else there's nothing to keep them interested in the task at hand. What I think the future is for teaching children to program is some sort of DSL built on top of a language with friendly syntax (these would include, arguably, Ruby, Python, and Scheme) whose purpose is to provide an intuitive environment for constructing simple games (say, Tic-Tac Toe, or Hangman).
I think you should start them off in C. The sooner they can get the hang of pointers the better.
See Understanding Pointers and Should I learn C.
I think the first question is: what sort of program would it be interesting to create? One of the things that got me started with programming as a kid (in BBC basic and then QBasic) was the ease of writing graphical programs. I could write a couple of lines of code and see my program draw a line on the screen straight away.
The closest I've seen to that sort of simplicity recently are the pygame library for python and Processing, a set of java libraries with an IDE.
I imagine that hacking on web pages would be another good way to get started: that would entail HTML, Javascript (using a library like jQuery), perhaps PHP or something along those lines.
Whatever tools you provide, the crucial thing is for it to be easy to get started straight away. If you have to write twenty lines of correct code and figure out how to invoke the compiler before you see any tangible results, progress is going to be slow.
There are many good suggestions here already. I really agree with Kronikarz. Get a retro computer (or emulator) that you are interested in and teach with that. Why a retro computer? Basic is built in. Making sounds and primitive graphics is a trivial task. The real deal might be better than an emulator because it will be a bit more fascinating to a child who is used to seeing only modern devices.
As I said here, I'd go for Squeakland and the famous Drive a Car example (powered by Squeak).
Smalltalk syntax is simple, which is great for children.
And later as the child evolves, he can learn more complex and even very advanced concepts that are also in Squeak (eg. programing statefull webapps with automated refactoring and automated unit tests!).
And like #cpuguru and #Rotem said, Scratch (also Squeak based) is great too.
I think Java might be a good choice simply because you can make GUIs easily, and see "cool things" happening. For the same reason, maybe any of the .NET languages. I've also heard good things about scripting languages (Ruby and Python, especially) for getting kids to learn how to program.
Well, if they're young and haven't learnt their ABC's you could try them on BF - non of those pesky letters and numbers to deal with.
I'll get me' coat.
Skizz
I would go with what I wish I had known first: a simple MS-DOS box and the integrated assembler (debug). It is great to really learn and understand the basics of talking to a computer.
If that does not scare away a child, then I would go the "next level up" and introduce C. This shouldn't be hard given that the basic concept of pointers, registers and instructions in general are well-understood by then.
However, I am not entirely sure, where to go next. Take the big jump to Lisp, Haskell or similarly abstracted languages or should there be some simple object oriented languages (maybe even C++) be thrown in or would that more hurt than help?
Looking at Alice, I see it is "designed for high school and college students". There appears to be another language/version called Story Telling Alice that is "designed for middle-school students"
Alice Download Page
I think Context Free Art might be a good choice, with output of graphics, it makes it a lot of fun learning about context-free grammar.
Try [Guido van Robot][1]. It's an excellent introduction to robotics, and it's a great way to introduce kids to the programming side of things (vs the "building the robots" side).
Wasn't Smalltalk designed for such a purpose? I think Ruby would be a good choice, as a descendant of Smalltalk.
I know in the first few years of high school we were 'taught' Logo, and strangely, HTML. After that, the progression went to macros in MS Office, followed by basic VBA, followed by Visual Basic.