Balancing HTML/CSS Between Designers and Engineers [closed] - html

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I have a development process question.
Background: I work for a modest sized website where, historically, the designers created mockups/screenshots of what they wanted pages and components to look like, and the engineering team (myself included) turned them into html/css.
This works relatively well from a code cleanliness perspective, and helps significantly when it comes to writing javascript. It has fails, however, in helping to maintain consistency from one page/component to another. On one page, a header font might be 12px and on another 11px, largely because its a complicated site with lots to keep track of (and we've cycled through 4 designers.) We have only a few truly universal styles, and they only get used when the engineers recognizes the style - not when the designer tells them to.
Our most recent designer is a relatively capable HTML/CSS coder. We thought we might have him create mockups in HTML/CSS and hand us off the code for quick integration. Our hope was that the designer would be better at being consistent in his style and that it might save us some development time up front.
What we've discovered is that our designer is not quite as good as CSS as we had hoped and that his code is often slightly bloated and incompatible with what we need to do. Also, his style of coding is fundamentally different from the rest of the engineering team and isn't jiving terribly well with our established coding practices.
Question: How do you do the hand off from design to engineering? I know I've heard of companies that let their design team do all of the template coding, but I'm curious how that works. Does the design team actually incorporate members of the engineering team in those scenarios?
As we're structured right now, there's not a chance in hell we'd let our designer write the final templates and check them into SVN, even if he was a proficient HTML wiz. There's too much in the templates that requires knowledge of our codebase and of potential performance issues.
How do we get this process working? Is it a pipe dream?

Answer 1

Specifically - personally - since I come from a web-dev, small-shop background I do the CSS work and slicing the PSD (typically) myself. But then I like to think I'm well rounded like that :)
Generally, the best experience I've had of this was a largish company with very defined groups of developers including the design team who produced the gfx, the apps team who did the vast bulk of server-side coding and app architecture, and the UE (user experience) team who sewed the two together, producing XSLT/JSP/HTML markup in general, and the CSS and JS for the client-side.
There was a very structured process of:
userstory ->
"wireframe" (documents) ->
design (PSD) ->
"flat" markup (DHTML only) ->
integrated markup (with web-app)
Where "wireframe" would be close to a spec for UE, produced with UML or maybe visio. I have heard the term applied to step 4 which I think fits better, but this is what it was referred to as there.
Whilst this works well for the question at hand, I found it had other problems built in. It was very hard to work across teams, and because of the timescales the design team rarely involved UE in decision making (which put UE in some awkward positions), the apps team and design could be working at cross-purposes, and there wasn't a lot of scope to learn in these boxed in teams.
My suspicion (and I think ideal scenario) is that the developers on a project would each be capable of working with, say, 80% of the technology involved (be it CSS, SQL, whatever) to spread the decision control and risk, but each domain would have one (more?) "czar" who could act as authority and oversight within the domain. Actually producing those designs is to my mind a strange and magical skill in it's own right so I see no real overlap with developers there, but I think a pool of artists and project teams of cross-skilled programmers would be very powerful.
Apols for the long-windedness. I could go on at considerable length on this, I've spent a lot of time thinking about it.
btw, it seems like you could do with some serious web-devs there, (no offence). Having problems to "maintain consistency from one page/component to another" screams failure to grok CSS

Answer 2

In my experience, unless you limit your design severely, you need real coding skills to build a web page with interaction. Let me elaborate some. If you have built your pages very modular (think of GUI toolkit widgets) you can give your designer a handful of them, he can build the basic structure like playing toy blocks with a nice finishing paint.
Often, modularization alone is not enough for desired interactivity. So, some blocks needs their interactions to be designed carefully as well (like animation, fluid layout to accommodate indeterminate content, customized behaviour via extra javascript, caching to eliminate redundant requests and speeding up things) or ability to accommodate minor presentation variations, which brings us to the realm of programming, where you calculate dimensions, enable/disable parts, keep track of time, preload stuff, invalidate preloaded stuff and so on.
Enter HTML/CSS/JS. They are more of a product of evolution than intelligent design. You cannot always declare your intent and be done with it. You need attributes declared in your html, stupid hacks in CSS combined with extra markup, ridiculous amounts of js to smooth rough edges, duplicate rendering code on the server side. These tool were never meant to build applications.
I don't think one can achieve a complete separation of design and application development in these tools at hand. The effort required is too high to justify the marginal returns.
If you end up heavily modifying designer's code (which is othen the case if he is not one of the developers also), there is no point in making him suffer trying to express his intent using the wrong tools, nor developers breaking the design while modifying it and consequently fixing it. I don't even mention user experience.
In my opinion, no small internet businesses who want to ship a product in a reasonable time should spend their scarce resources to go against the grain. Let people do what they do best in collaboration if necessary. If you can't divide design process at an arbitrary satisfying point, you may as well not bother to separate at all. Pipelining works well for machines whose goal is determined to the last detail and not changing. I can't say the same for humans building and designing things be it software or hardware.

Answer 3

Where I work it's basically the same. Designers create mock-ups and specifications of the UI design, right down to the pixel, and the developer creates HTML/CSS/code out of that.
The reason I say code, is that we use UI frameworks (namely, GWT), and as much as we would want to, code and CSS styles are still very coupled. I do not believe there exists one UI framework in which code can be completely decoupled from the UI design.
So I guess for now it's still entirely the developers job. Though I would like to hear about organization which are able to hand off some of the work to designers.

Answer 4

The problem with handoffs is that the idea and implementation of one group is not going to match the abilities and implementation of the next group. Just by their nature handoffs are going to be wrought with problems. So what is an alternative to the ubiquitous handoff scenario? I think that integrating the user experience (UX) into an agile and iterative development process makes sure that what is really important occurs:
The customer's needs are researched then validated.
Early and continuous collaborating between usability experts, designers and programmers.
The actual process works by having everyone collaborate with the customer up-front on their needs. Then the design is researched and prototyped in the iteration before coding begins. Thus when coding is occurring, the next set of designs are being worked on. Programmers should be looking forward at what designers are doing and the designers look back to be sure programmers are on target. Once a design is coded, it goes to the customer for acceptance, by that time the programmers are working on the next set of interfaces.
Jeff Patton did a podcast on Agile UX recently that goes into some of the implementation concepts and common problems.
There is a whole group on Yahoo dedicated to agile usability (which mostly involves interface design).
For the CSS inconsistencies... I'd just suggest making a style guide then trying to stick to it. Have someone be in charge of "design consistency" that way the can spank anyone inventing yet another way to display the user.

Answer 5

At my company, my ideal work flow doesn't work very often, but sometimes it does. I löve when this happens: The engineers write the webapp and output semantic html with only minimal CSS. then you have the designers do the CSS.
I like it when it goes this way, because:
It is easy for me to write semantic
HTML.
I am not very good at coming up
with a good design for my semantic
html.
It is entirely possible to do
the CSS without asking me questions.
The markup just speaks for itself.
However, this rarely works. Because:
The CSS has to be modified whenever the HTML changes and the designers' time is sparse.
Moreover, our designers don't enjoy styling my markup, and fighting for their time is not pleasant.
Our designers often want to change the markup. Mostly because they believe some layouts cannot be done without changing the markup or because they believe that it's the only way to make IE obey. They are technically not able to change the markup, though.
I have my doubts about many of their cases. Many times they claim IE incompatibility, I strongly doubt they really know IE that well. There are neat CSS hacks to make IE obey without resorting to
<br clear="all">
So, sadly, usually this ideal is a little off for me.

Answer 6

A separate designer - developer workflow is the best way to go. Designing a website and coding it are altogether different jobs. There are issues of cross browser compatability, CSS, XHTML, apart from coding standards to deal with.
You could also opt for outsourcing your HTML to a specialized PSD to HTML conversion expert like us (ButterflyHTML). It may work out cost effective in the long run