I have been coding procedural php for a while and I feel I got a pretty good hang of it.
I feel like learning something new. Any ideas on what is good/hot to know?
I have read some about zend mvc and it seems interesting, but im not sure..
I feel like procedural php is so unorganized and hard to debug when the project grows big.
help me out thanks
I'm a Python/Django developer myself so I'm pretty biased. I don't have anything against Ruby/RoR.
I'd take a look at the languages that the frameworks are built in and see which one you think you'd prefer.
I personally like how Python is structured so I went with Django. I know some fabulous programmers who prefer Ruby so they went with RoR. I personally wouldn't stick with PHP, but I know people who make a very descent living with it as well.
You can't really go wrong either way. but for now MVC is definitely the way to go. I'd look at the language first and the framework second.
Also, sometimes clients and/or the company you work for will make this decision for you. As long as you understand the underlying concepts of MVC and web development, it shouldn't be too much of a hassle to learn a new framework.
I would suggest moving to OOP with PHP. I've done some Python and Ruby and now PHP and OOP is more prevalent in both Python and Ruby. I think you'll learn A LOT by going the OOP route with a language you already know rather than switch languages and then have to learn OOP on top of that.
If you start to learn either Ruby or Python (which are both good suggestions), you should not just pick the most popular web framework, but investigate several options. RoR for instance gives you extremely good productivity as long as you stick "with the program", but other frameworks, like Sinatra, might have better (and simpler) solutions for some problems.
Within a single framework you might also have the option of selecting different ORM mappers, different templating engines, etc.
So, learn the languages first. Then get familiar with a handful of frameworks and libraries. Then specialize when you know the landscape.
Related
I am a non-coder and am very good at HTML. I am going to self-teach myself Ruby & Ruby on Rails because I hear it's a good skill to have but especially because it may be an easy first language to learn with my HTML background.
I would like to create my webpage, which will catalog my photographs, using Ruby on Rails. For a non-coder-HTML-user like myself, which would be a smoother transition:
1) Ruby before RoR
OR
2) Learn both at the same time
Thanks!
I was at the same stage 1 month back where you are now.
2 Cases are here:
From learning perspective, definitely Ruby first and then RoR!
If you quickly want to make a web-app (in a rush), then do Rails with basic concept of Ruby (which you will gradually understand both, I know people who directly started with Rails and now they understand Rails and Ruby, both).
What I am doing is, learning Ruby, and for that, I am making a small desktop utility on Ruby and will start with Rails as soon I am "satisfied" with my Ruby desktop app.
If you're totally unfamiliar with object theory, I think you
should learn Rails first through a good tutorial and then, when
you start feeling comfortable with the syntax, you should learn Ruby.
I would recommend that you read the Poignant guide to Ruby.
It's a work of art, both funny and enlightening.
As a programmer myself, I learned Rails before I learned Ruby. RoR makes it so easy to be able to accomplish things without knowing the difference between what is Ruby and what is Rails.
If you read up on Rails and getting started with it, read a few blogs and watch a screencast or three, nothing should stop you from being able to do something useful with the framework.
Unless you're highly curious as to the differences between the two, learn Rails and be happy.
As you don't know any programming language I think it is better to learn how to program before.
That said you can pick Ruby as a learning programming language. After learning the basics you may learn Ruby on Rails making some web applications.
My first instinct is to say learn Ruby first, without doubt. I think any kind of framework is difficult to learn if you don't know 1) the language it uses, or worse 2) any programming language or programming language idioms/grammar/structures/etc.
But reading the comments in this thread, perhaps it's worth trying to learn RoR and Ruby at the same time. If it's too confusing, then pivot and focus on just learning the language first, and RoR later.
Regarding learning the language, while there are lots of Ruby blogs and sites, I think you can learn a language must faster if you work through a single good book first. Why's guide mentioned above is good and fun for experiened programmers, but needs to be supplemented by a real book for someone new to programming.
Good luck!
I'm having a bit of an overload of information these past two days.
I'm planning to start my own website that will allow local businesses to list their items on sale, and then users can come in and search for "Abercrombie t-shirt" and the stores that sell them will be listed.
It's a neat little project I'm really excited for and I'm sure it'll take off, but I'm having problems from the get go.
Sure I could use ASP.Net for it, I'm a bit familiar with it and the IDE for ASP.Net pages is bar-none, but I feel this is a great chance for me to learn something new to branch out a bit and not regurgitate .NET like a robot.
I've been looking and asking around but it's all just noise and I can't make an educated decision.
Can you help me choose a framework/platform that will make me learn something that's a nice thing to know in the job market, but also nice for me to grow as a professional?
So far I've looked at:
Ruby on Rails
Kohana
CakePHP
CodeIgniter
Symfony
But they are all very esoteric to me, and I have trouble even finding out which IDE to use to that will let me use auto-complete for the proprietary keywords/methods.
Thank you for your time.
Have you considered ASP.NET MVC?
You will learn MVC architecture and client-side programming with javascript and jQuery, in a nimble platform that produces clean markup. If you are used to ASP.NET, you will be surprised at the clarity of design.
The NerdDinner tutorial is the go-to guide for getting started.
I suggest you try the whole Java eco-system.
Both similar and different to the .NET world, a lot of open-source frameworks.
Eclipse is a very good free IDE.
Also, why not go with GWT for the client side ?
In any case - enjoy !
Because nobody's mentioned it yet, I'm gonna have to suggest Rails.
I'm sure you're going to hear arguments for each framework you mentioned (and probably some you didn't), but I"ll be brief and explain why I got into Rails, having tried several of the others in your list:
It's beautiful. Coding in Ruby actually makes me happy. I find that I'm removed from a lot of tedium I've come to associate with large projects, and it's totally changed my coding career - I would literally hate to think how much less content of a programmer I'd be had I not taken the plunge. My only suggestion here would be to just try it.
Besides the succinctness of Ruby, Rails got me thinking in a more modular, logical and maintainable manner. As well as the great community, I really subscribe to the principles Rails stands for (especially the emphasis on DRY code), but all of the frameworks you mentioned have their recognized (and controversially disputed) pros and cons.
Each one is both similar and unique in varying degrees and aspects, and ultimately it's up to you to decide - Do some research; deliberate as to whether you're looking for huge libraries, a strong community, cutting-edge updates or assurances in tight documentation. Figuring out what you hope to gain from a framework is a great way of choosing the right one. But you should go for Rails anyway ;P
Good luck!
I've taken courses, studied, and even developed a little by myself, but so far, i've only worked with Microsoft technologies, and until now I have no problems with it.
I recently got a job in a Microsoft gold partner company for development in C#, VB.net and asp.net.
I'd like tips on how to diversify, learning technologies other than those from Microsoft. Not necessarely for finding another job, I think my job just fits me for my current interests. I think that by learning by myself other languages, frameworks, databases.. I may become a better programmer as a whole and (maybe) at the end of it all having more options of job opportunities, choosing what i'm going to be working with.
What should I start with? how should I do it?
If you're comfortable with C# and VB, learn a language that uses different paradigms. The usual suspects would be Ruby, Erlang, Haskell, Lisp. All of these are available for Windows and other platforms. You might have to get used to different tools to interact with them but that's not necessarily a bad thing.
At the risk of sounding trite, why not install some variant of Linux on a cheap desktop? The mere act of setting up a Linux box is educational.
Once you find your way around it, do some shell scripting and install things like a web server. That should keep you busy for a while. Once you past that, play with some dynamic languages like perl, ruby, python, PHP, etc.
If you're interested in other languages, just pick one and away you go. You sound like you have enough experience to be apt in another language.
If you're looking into a new desktop-development-language then I'd recommend Java or Python, both of which you'd ease into with your C# and VB.NET experience.
If you're looking into web programming, go for PHP?
Browse some source
examples and see what catches your
eye as the most interesting.
Pick up a book on that language.
Ideally, one should know at least one example from each of the major "paradigms":
Assembly (nowadays a dying art, and not that useful)
plain C
one of the OO-variants of C (C++, objective C)
Java or C# (they are very similar, probably no need to learn both)
a scripting language like Ruby or Perl
Javascript (preferrably via Crockford's book)
a non-pure functional language, e.g Scheme (PLT Scheme is a nice learning environment)
a pure-functionalal language like Haskell or OCAML
Erlang (somewhat of a class of its own)
a mathematical/statistical language like R, or J (an APL-successor)
Microsoft technologies aren't bad to start with. My advice would be:
Make sure you aquire sound knowledge about the foundations of programming and the technologies you use. The more basics you know, the more independent you'll be from the latest fads:
Read "Windows Internals" to understand the operating system you're working with. In the process, you will understand other operating systems a lot better.
Toy around with other languages. Learn the differences between statically-typed languages and duct-type languages, functional programming languages, iterative programming languages whatever.
Learn the language you use the best you can. Become John Skeet!
In other words, don't move sideways first. Dig deeper and become better at understanding what you do.
It would be a nice idea to get associated with one the open source programm on http://sf.net. That way you can even have your learning for new platform and also produce some legitimate code. Also you get to look at some good coding practices. Last but not least some giving back to the software community
Maybe think of a project that would be of use to you in your daily life and see if you could develop that in a suitable language. That way you have a goal and at the end of the project you have something useful.
Alternatively why not try learing something not directly programming related, project management might be of use for future roles or do some reading about the history of technology.
These won't add any new languages to your CV but they might add some different aspects to your thinking that might make you a more well rounded potential employee.
I see two main directions to go:
Specific technologies. Select these depending upon how you want to extend yourself, new language (perhaps scripting if you haven't done that, perhaps functional programming), or new techniques (for example, UI programming, or low-level network programming depending upon what you haven't already done), or new OS (Linux if you're a Windows person).
Or, look at higher level problems, for example Design Methods and Team organisation. Read books such as Brooks' Mythical Man Month and Beck's Extreme Pogramming. Consider how to deal with problems bigger that can be solved by one person. Read up on (Rational) Unified Process, UML. Explore revision control systems, Testing techniques, not just Unit Test, but otehr flavours. Think about how you would organise a team if you were the leader. How would the tasks be subdivided, how would communication be managed?
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I am just dipping my hands into web technologies. I started with HTML and now JavaScript and PHP. I have a variety of questions in my mind. I am a hardcore .NET Windows developer and earn my living with it. But now I want to go deep into Web and so here are my queries:
(1) I started using PHP. I also want to learn Ruby with Rails. Can I learn both side-by-side?
(2) What type of sample projects I can develop to learn well these technologies? I just have in mind to make a web log, that it.
(3) I am using Aptana Studio 2009. It is very good but not the best IDE. Which other IDE can speed up my design time? Any tool that separates the design with business logic automatically?
(4) What other things I must learn to bring myself to the front in web technologies?
Firstly, I applaud the initiative in learning Web technologies. Frankly, going forward, I think programmers will increasingly find it harder to not know Web stuff.
To answer your questions:
I would advise sticking to one at least for awhile. I'd suggest that one be PHP. Why? Ruby on Rails is a language and a framework. I'm a strong advocate of people having some understanding of the underlying technologies, including HTTP, before they throw frameworks on top of it that may confuse or hide issues a developer needs to know about. Stick with vanilla PHP and don't confuse it by throwing something like CodeIgniter, Kohana, Symfony, CakePHP or Zend on top of it;
A blog is a fine learner project. Whatever you pick shouldn't be something terribly complicated, something you can get something out of relatively quickly and something you should be able to add features you want to (you'll be more interested this way);
Jetbrains new Web IDE is coming along nicely. It's what I've switched to. PhpEd, Eclipse PDT and Netbeans all have different merits;
HTMl, CSS and Javascript. Additionally I'd also recommend jQuery.
1) Yes. But it is advisable to pick one technology/web framework and master it. It is easy to get caught in the technology rat race.
2) Think of a problem you have been facing say at workplace. Perhaps there is some routine work that can be done better using a web application. Use that as a project.
4) Read up on basic design principles like layout, color etc. The Non-Designer's design book is a good place to start.
1). I personally would advise you go with Ruby, Java or .NET but stick to one whilst learning, preferably the one closest to he language you know already, which for you means .NET (C#?). I wouldn't recommend PHP under any circumstances but plenty would.
2). Yes, a blog is a good starter project.
3). Just get yourself a good text editor for starters. IDEs make a hash of HTML/CSS/JS which is what you'll be doing a lot of too. But you can stay on the free side by getting a copy of Visual Web Developer Express Edition.
4). Get seriously aware of HTTP, HTML, CSS + JS. In fact don't even think about dynamic pages until you have static pages down solid. Then add dynamic functionality.
Addendum:
From my experience of colleagues who have taken the path you're taking, desktop development teaches you a number of bad habits for web development that you're going to need to unlearn. Specifically: assumptions about state, client vs server, concurrency, and - both most and least serious - inline styling. Bad. Bad. Bad.
A solid understanding of HTTP helps clear some of those, and learning CSS (as an effective way of learning the value of separation of concerns) helps with the latter. Concurrency is something most frameworks will take you 90% of the way with but it's always going to be up to you to think about when and how to apply it.
Given further thought I would ultimately recommend you stay in .NET land (the ASP.NET pipeline model and C# as a whole are solid and mind-blowing respectively) and get yourself express and download ASP.NET MVC extensions for it - the WebForms model is pretty widely reviled by web developers for a reason, but coming from a desktop background it might be more immediate for you. At the expense of settling you into those bad habits I mentioned.
Yes if you're dedicated. If your php is stronger than your RoR familiarity there's a book for you # http://railsforphp.com/ - I would recommend getting more familiar with PHP then jumping to RoR as it's a bit more to learn because of the whole MVC architecture and the language itself is different from most semicolon and braces C-style languages.
The hello world of web programming - a blog.
Personally I use VIM which isn't an IDE, but it's pretty friggin efficient for text editing.
I would recommend often reading Stackoverflow and try to answer some questions while you're learning some new technology, it'll double the rate at which you'll learn if you really force yourself.
You can. I think I would advise
against it.
Blogs are good
places to start. Maybe a photo
gallery?
Eclipse is nice for all
sorts of development.
Like Nike
says, "Just do it" :)
1) This depends on your learning capability, but you really shouldn't. Start with either one, get good at it, then the second one will be much easier to learn.
2) As said before, blogs are a great way to start. You also want to create something like a shopping system to get the grip on good database development.
3) You don't want to create Business Logic alongside the UI. Try learning about templating engines such as Smarty, and your problem will likely vanish instantly. Try Eclipse for an IDE, or better, learn about vim.
4) Discipline. It is incredibly easy to shoot yourself in the foot using PHP and Ruby using crappy code. Dot your is and remember to initialize your variables. Don't just copy code from somewhere, but think of what it does and what could go wrong. Sanitize user input. This takes work, but saves headaches later on.
1) Dont you will just confuse yourself. Learn one after the other both are good!
2) Amazon and Wikipedia are largly php based, I know of a couple of airline booking systems, most blogs are based on one of several freely available php applications.
3) For php/javascript/css I have always gotten by quite happily with good old vim, but thats just me. I would beware of any "framemaker" type GUI html editors as they tend to generate a lot of confusing and unreadable html. Its alright for a static page but when you generate a dynamic page you really need to know what all the html tags are there for.
4) If your serious you really need to learn about cascading style sheets and how to use them properly.
(1) It is all about what you want to do and are you OK with handling new technologies. You can do anything.
(2) What about hello world or simple login application if you are beginner really.
(3) Eclipse always a Best option to think.
(4) CSS, JavaScript, and new JavaScript frame work like prototype,jQuery and more importantly some of the tag library.
I'm starting to develop a browser-based game (and by this I mean text-based, no Flash or similar stuff on it) and I'm struggling to decide on which development framework to use.
As far as requirements are concerned, the most important thing that I can think of right now is the ability to translate it to several languages. A good object-relational mapping and a way to generate forms from logical objects would also be very good, as I've noticed that I always spend lots of time solving the problems that come up when I change any of those things.
The programming language is kind of unimportant. I have some experience in PHP and C#, but I don't mind, and I would even like to use this as an excuse, learning some new thing like Python or Ruby. What I do want is something with a good and thriving community and lots of samples and tutorials online to help me.
I would reccomend sticking to what you know - PHP is more than capable.
That's true of course, but:
I don't mind, and I would even like to use this as an excuse, learning some new thing like Python or Ruby.
Then writing a browser game is an excellent opportunity to do this. Learning something new is never wrong and learning an alternative to PHP can never hurt (eh, Jeff?). While neither Ruby on Rails nor Django are especially useful for writing games, they're still great. We had to write a small browser game in a matter of weeks for a project once and Rails worked charms. On the other hand, all successful browser games have enormous work loads and if you want to scale well you either have to get good hardware and load balancing or you need a non-interpreted framework (sorry, guys!).
I'd definitely suggest PHP. I've developed browser based games (pbbgs) for about 10 years now. I've tried .Net, Perl and Java.
All of them worked, but by far PHP was the best because:
Speed with which you can develop (that might be due to experience)
Ease/Cost of finding a host for a game site
Flexibility to change/revamp on the fly (game programming seems to always have a different development cycle then normal projects)
Ruby is not to bad, but the last time I tried it I rapidly ran into scaling/performance issues. I have not tried Python yet...maybe it's time to give it a shot.
Just my two cents, but over the years PHP has saved me a ton of time.
I would reccomend sticking to what you know - PHP is more than capable.
I used to play a game called Hyperiums - a text based browser game like yours - which is created using Java (it's web-based quivalent is JSP?) and servlets. It works fairly well (it has had downtime issues but those were more related to it's running on a pretty crap server).
As for which framework to use - why not create your own? Spend a good amount of time pre-coding deciding how you're going to handle various things - such as langauge support: you could use a phrase system or seperate langauge-specific templates. Third party frameworks are probably better tested than one you make but they're not created for a specific purpose, they're created for a wide range of purposes.
Check out django-mmo!